I was absolutely friggin' delighted by how much headcanon got confirmed by 3Ds. Time goes by differently in different worlds, check. Riku keeps breaking the laws of reality (seriously how do you turn yourself into a Dream Eater Riku, how does that even work), check. Ven, Xion, and Roxas are still kind of kicking around in Sora, check. Sora makes the same mistakes he did in CoM 'cause he doesn't remember making them, check. Riku remembers Terra, check. Kairi will be trained in epic asskickery, check. So much confirmation!
Actually, none of the trio were supposed to happen! It is after all canon that Sora is a walking WTF right next to Kairi and Riku. That is what makes them interesting and also delightful. After all, Terra, Ven, and Aqua were supposed to happen, as were Eraqus and Xehanort, and look what happened to them. And I'm pretty sure that Lea/Axel wasn't a thing that was supposed to happen either. I'm not counting Mickey because there have been hints here and there that Mickey might not have been a thing that was supposed to happen either. (Why are you so comfortable in the darkness, your majesty?)
It is my personal headcanon that Sora is somehow Kingdom Hearts himself. Like, Kairi is the light and Riku is the Darkness and Sora is - Sora is just *everything*, contained within himself. (He's got a lot of hearts shoved in there okay.)
Well Ven was only sort of supposed to happen. Terra and Aqua and Eraqus and Xenohort yes.
Nobodies are kind of reality breaking in and of themselves, but Lea especially so. It's kind of his talent, sneaking in between the cracks of possibility. All of the org were skilled at it, but Axel was particularly good. (What'd he pull in CO? sort of a triple cross?)
Okay okay okay. So I have to bring up an old, old theory of mine that has since been exploded, though certain thematic aspects still read. Like years ago, my theory was that there were only two real keyblades. There was a keyblade of light and a keyblade of darkness, and all of the others were merely... reflections of those. Sora had the keyblade of Light, and Roxas and Kairi had reflections of it. Mickey had the keyblade of Darkness, and Riku's was a reflection of it. (Note that in Days, Mickey's keyblade is called Door to Darkness.) I think I was basing it off the idea that Mickey locked the door from the side of darkness and Sora from the side of the light.
Like I said, exploded. But certain aspects read. (This was before Xion, for instance.) And thinking about it's actually... kind of accurate for what we know about the KyeBlade.
So yeah, Mickey's got darkness in him, I think is the point I was going for. He's too chaotic to not.
Not sure I buy that one--the whole point of Sora is that, as was emphasized in 3Ds, he's just an ordinary kid who through selflessness and generosity pretty much becomes the most powerful thing like ever. (Sora is the world's worst timeshare because everyone is there at once.)
True, but Ven was supposed to happen until he got Xehanort-ed, much like Riku was supposed to happen until he got Darkness-ed/Xehanort-ed. Though Xehanort really shot himself in the foot with that one.
It's why I wasn't particularly surprised that he's keyblade-capable. After all, you don't have to be good or nice to wield one (hi, Xehanort and Vanitas), just have a strong heart. And yeah, it was a ridiculous triple-cross. Killed Vexen to keep him from interfering with Marluxia's plans, tried to take down Marluxia to keep him from interfering with Xemnas's plan, and took down Zexion to keep him from interfering with the plan with Saix. It must be exhausting to be Lea.
Yeah, Mickey does have the keyblade from the realm of darkness, but the realm of light's got a bunch of them because that's where people live. Which makes me wonder who was the first wielder from the realm of darkness, since there must have been one for there to be a keyblade. After all, we know keybearers can survive in there fine even sans the cloaks, and it's not like it hurts darkness wielders too much, especially if they're like Riku (and Mickey!) IIRC in an interview Nomura stated there's something in common about the two of them that makes dark corridors not affect them--they used the cloaks to hide from the org, not to ward off the effects of the darkness.
Eh, I'm not saying he was born to be Kingdom Hearts. Just that he - like you said, because he's so selfless and generous he... ends up connecting every heart to every other, ends up becoming the nexus of everything. (he's a heartocpus, with tentacles glomping everyone's heart into himself.)
Yeah, Xehanort picks them well. Then again, it's not like anyone saw Riku coming. (Except for Terra, perhaps. I suspect Terra might have known.)
*nod nod* related: I loved that 3Ds made sure to point out that just because Lea is Lea again that doesn't change the fact that he's spent the last ten years or so as Axel. Getting a heart back doesn't make him a nice person again. (related headcanon: losing a heart breaks something that getting it back doesn't fix) Exhausting but also fabulous. I suspect he's always had a lot of fun with it.
Hmm. Yeah, there had to be two, one of light and darkness - we don't know how long this shit has gone on. I wouldn't be adverse to Yen Sid being the first of Light, but clearly there must have pre-xehanort.... hurm. What they have in common though - besides acceptance of the darkness and chaos?
That is a fairly good description of him! He's basically the anti-Xehanort--connecting everyone to himself but for purposes of good and not evil.
Given Terra's canon flash-forward, he did clearly see Riku coming, although probably not the bad bits. And given what we saw in 3Ds, I think Mickey had an inkling from the very beginning. (On a random and fairly hilarious note, I accidentally pulled a Terra while at Gencon when we were in line to get into the costume contest. I let a teensy little girl hold my keyblade and it was only at RM's giggling that I realized what I'd done.)
Yeah, I liked that too. Especially given what we now know about hearts and nobodies--of course he's Axel and not Lea, definitely not Lea how he used to be. (Frisbees: not so good for fighting Xehanorts.) Also that headcanon is interesting--doesn't quite fit for Sora and Kairi though, but they're exceptions to every rule just like Riku is, so. Not sure where I'm going with that other than I'm interested to see what's up with the restored!Org and whether or not Ienzo's holding a grudge or is just happy to be a person again.
Given what's indicated by the graveyard, it was years and we don't know how long ago the war was. Or how long it took to get to that point. I'm not sure even Yen Sid is old enough to be the first of the Light, but he might be old enough to be the only survivor of the war, since it's not a stretch to assume that he's the one who trained Xehanort and Eraqus. And that is indeed the question! Especially given that Mickey flat-out says that Riku's a new thing, so clearly he's not built the same way as Riku is, even if philosophically they're on the same keel.
Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. He becomes KH because he's special, he's not special because he's KH.
I'm not sure if Terra would have registered the bad bits. Love the boy to bits, but he's dull as a box of jello sometimes. (....awww! That is made out of adorable though. You made a keybearer!)
I guess that headcanon was sort of out of a desire to make losing a heart have some sort of lasting effect. It would be nice to have bomfing a heart into someone fix all the emotional baggage and personality disorders and ten years worth of being a horrible person with horrible habits. But it's too easy and too sweet for that to happen - and thankfully 3ds mostly confirmed that. I guess it boils down to "just because you have a heart again doesn't mean you know how to use it." Okay, clarification: I was under the impression that most of the restored!org was turned into Xehaclones, which is why there were actually 13 of them there. Is there confirmation otherwise?
Okay so I'm starting to have a bit of theory. (Though it goes directly against what I wrote in my thorkh thing, which is annoying). Dark and Light = Chaos and Order, creation and maintenance. (For Light, see basically all of Eraqus. Beautiful and sterile and dead.) Mickey has darkness because he has chaos, because he revels in the uncontrolled. (See old school Mickey) But he's found a way to balance the two, channel the darkness into creation and the light into maintaining the creations, never letting one over power the other.
...or something like that. Except if chaos is dark then pre mental break down Loki is *not* the dark brother...
Yeah, Terra is... he is dumb as a box of really really stupid bricks. So sweet and adorable, but so dumb. No wonder Xehanort only wanted him for his body. (RM's interpretation was more along the lines of "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE" which I think is also a fairly appropriate reaction.)
I think it's pretty clear that our main characters are walking talking exceptions to the rule in pretty much every case. And that does seem to be a thing, Lea's still very clearly Axel and Ienzo (from what little we see of him) is definitely not like his teensy wee human self. As for your question, I don't think they were? I mean, we know the original group sans Xigbar were still back at Radiant Garden, and they did not look well. I'm pretty sure that's why at the very end Lea ran off, to protect them, since given that Vexen/Even was still out cold and Lexaeus/Aleus was walking into walls... if anything I think some of the ones who kept the hoods up might be later additions to the org. Especially because I'm pretty sure that the originals are going to want to stab Xehanort in the face a lot, and that a restored!Marluxia and Larxene wouldn't be playing along as Xehaclones.
...that's pretty much the theory that I operate on with Mickey, yep. It's why Distopia!Mickey is the way he is, even if I haven't written the whole thing, and it's part of the reason he's so incredibly pissed at Xehanort, because here's a dude who gets it but fucks with it anyway basically for the lulz. It also plays into his relationship with Riku heavily, at least in Distopia--that Mickey's lying like a rug in CoM when he says he used to think darkness was bad, but he's doing it for a reason--because here's the perfect proof that he's right, and unlike with Terra he's actually in a position to make sure that the person who embodies that balance stays safe. (Also, something that's canon for my stories? Mickey was the one who introduced Sephiroth to Riku. For that same reason.)
Well, chaos is dark, but darkness is a necessary counterpart to light, and nobody's just one or the other except the Princesses--"the closer you get to the light, the greater your darkness becomes," remember? And given 3Ds, the one can turn into the other. So yeah, it's very easy to read Thor's darkness and Loki as basically pulling a Terra--neat and orderly and controlled until the breakdown.
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2012-11-17 02:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-20 03:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-18 02:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-20 03:08 am (UTC)I was thinking about 3d and started sniggering because I realized "so yeah no one knows how Riku happened" is actually canon now!
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Date: 2012-11-20 03:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-20 03:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-20 03:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-20 04:15 am (UTC)Well Ven was only sort of supposed to happen. Terra and Aqua and Eraqus and Xenohort yes.
Nobodies are kind of reality breaking in and of themselves, but Lea especially so. It's kind of his talent, sneaking in between the cracks of possibility. All of the org were skilled at it, but Axel was particularly good. (What'd he pull in CO? sort of a triple cross?)
Okay okay okay. So I have to bring up an old, old theory of mine that has since been exploded, though certain thematic aspects still read. Like years ago, my theory was that there were only two real keyblades. There was a keyblade of light and a keyblade of darkness, and all of the others were merely... reflections of those. Sora had the keyblade of Light, and Roxas and Kairi had reflections of it. Mickey had the keyblade of Darkness, and Riku's was a reflection of it. (Note that in Days, Mickey's keyblade is called Door to Darkness.) I think I was basing it off the idea that Mickey locked the door from the side of darkness and Sora from the side of the light.
Like I said, exploded. But certain aspects read. (This was before Xion, for instance.) And thinking about it's actually... kind of accurate for what we know about the KyeBlade.
So yeah, Mickey's got darkness in him, I think is the point I was going for. He's too chaotic to not.
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Date: 2012-11-20 02:12 pm (UTC)True, but Ven was supposed to happen until he got Xehanort-ed, much like Riku was supposed to happen until he got Darkness-ed/Xehanort-ed. Though Xehanort really shot himself in the foot with that one.
It's why I wasn't particularly surprised that he's keyblade-capable. After all, you don't have to be good or nice to wield one (hi, Xehanort and Vanitas), just have a strong heart. And yeah, it was a ridiculous triple-cross. Killed Vexen to keep him from interfering with Marluxia's plans, tried to take down Marluxia to keep him from interfering with Xemnas's plan, and took down Zexion to keep him from interfering with the plan with Saix. It must be exhausting to be Lea.
Yeah, Mickey does have the keyblade from the realm of darkness, but the realm of light's got a bunch of them because that's where people live. Which makes me wonder who was the first wielder from the realm of darkness, since there must have been one for there to be a keyblade. After all, we know keybearers can survive in there fine even sans the cloaks, and it's not like it hurts darkness wielders too much, especially if they're like Riku (and Mickey!) IIRC in an interview Nomura stated there's something in common about the two of them that makes dark corridors not affect them--they used the cloaks to hide from the org, not to ward off the effects of the darkness.
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Date: 2012-11-24 02:45 am (UTC)Yeah, Xehanort picks them well. Then again, it's not like anyone saw Riku coming. (Except for Terra, perhaps. I suspect Terra might have known.)
*nod nod* related: I loved that 3Ds made sure to point out that just because Lea is Lea again that doesn't change the fact that he's spent the last ten years or so as Axel. Getting a heart back doesn't make him a nice person again. (related headcanon: losing a heart breaks something that getting it back doesn't fix) Exhausting but also fabulous. I suspect he's always had a lot of fun with it.
Hmm. Yeah, there had to be two, one of light and darkness - we don't know how long this shit has gone on. I wouldn't be adverse to Yen Sid being the first of Light, but clearly there must have pre-xehanort.... hurm. What they have in common though - besides acceptance of the darkness and chaos?
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Date: 2012-11-24 03:24 am (UTC)Given Terra's canon flash-forward, he did clearly see Riku coming, although probably not the bad bits. And given what we saw in 3Ds, I think Mickey had an inkling from the very beginning. (On a random and fairly hilarious note, I accidentally pulled a Terra while at Gencon when we were in line to get into the costume contest. I let a teensy little girl hold my keyblade and it was only at RM's giggling that I realized what I'd done.)
Yeah, I liked that too. Especially given what we now know about hearts and nobodies--of course he's Axel and not Lea, definitely not Lea how he used to be. (Frisbees: not so good for fighting Xehanorts.) Also that headcanon is interesting--doesn't quite fit for Sora and Kairi though, but they're exceptions to every rule just like Riku is, so. Not sure where I'm going with that other than I'm interested to see what's up with the restored!Org and whether or not Ienzo's holding a grudge or is just happy to be a person again.
Given what's indicated by the graveyard, it was years and we don't know how long ago the war was. Or how long it took to get to that point. I'm not sure even Yen Sid is old enough to be the first of the Light, but he might be old enough to be the only survivor of the war, since it's not a stretch to assume that he's the one who trained Xehanort and Eraqus. And that is indeed the question! Especially given that Mickey flat-out says that Riku's a new thing, so clearly he's not built the same way as Riku is, even if philosophically they're on the same keel.
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Date: 2012-11-29 04:43 am (UTC)I'm not sure if Terra would have registered the bad bits. Love the boy to bits, but he's dull as a box of jello sometimes. (....awww! That is made out of adorable though. You made a keybearer!)
I guess that headcanon was sort of out of a desire to make losing a heart have some sort of lasting effect. It would be nice to have bomfing a heart into someone fix all the emotional baggage and personality disorders and ten years worth of being a horrible person with horrible habits. But it's too easy and too sweet for that to happen - and thankfully 3ds mostly confirmed that. I guess it boils down to "just because you have a heart again doesn't mean you know how to use it." Okay, clarification: I was under the impression that most of the restored!org was turned into Xehaclones, which is why there were actually 13 of them there. Is there confirmation otherwise?
Okay so I'm starting to have a bit of theory. (Though it goes directly against what I wrote in my thorkh thing, which is annoying). Dark and Light = Chaos and Order, creation and maintenance. (For Light, see basically all of Eraqus. Beautiful and sterile and dead.) Mickey has darkness because he has chaos, because he revels in the uncontrolled. (See old school Mickey) But he's found a way to balance the two, channel the darkness into creation and the light into maintaining the creations, never letting one over power the other.
...or something like that. Except if chaos is dark then pre mental break down Loki is *not* the dark brother...
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Date: 2012-12-01 05:45 am (UTC)Yeah, Terra is... he is dumb as a box of really really stupid bricks. So sweet and adorable, but so dumb. No wonder Xehanort only wanted him for his body. (RM's interpretation was more along the lines of "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE" which I think is also a fairly appropriate reaction.)
I think it's pretty clear that our main characters are walking talking exceptions to the rule in pretty much every case. And that does seem to be a thing, Lea's still very clearly Axel and Ienzo (from what little we see of him) is definitely not like his teensy wee human self. As for your question, I don't think they were? I mean, we know the original group sans Xigbar were still back at Radiant Garden, and they did not look well. I'm pretty sure that's why at the very end Lea ran off, to protect them, since given that Vexen/Even was still out cold and Lexaeus/Aleus was walking into walls... if anything I think some of the ones who kept the hoods up might be later additions to the org. Especially because I'm pretty sure that the originals are going to want to stab Xehanort in the face a lot, and that a restored!Marluxia and Larxene wouldn't be playing along as Xehaclones.
...that's pretty much the theory that I operate on with Mickey, yep. It's why Distopia!Mickey is the way he is, even if I haven't written the whole thing, and it's part of the reason he's so incredibly pissed at Xehanort, because here's a dude who gets it but fucks with it anyway basically for the lulz. It also plays into his relationship with Riku heavily, at least in Distopia--that Mickey's lying like a rug in CoM when he says he used to think darkness was bad, but he's doing it for a reason--because here's the perfect proof that he's right, and unlike with Terra he's actually in a position to make sure that the person who embodies that balance stays safe. (Also, something that's canon for my stories? Mickey was the one who introduced Sephiroth to Riku. For that same reason.)
Well, chaos is dark, but darkness is a necessary counterpart to light, and nobody's just one or the other except the Princesses--"the closer you get to the light, the greater your darkness becomes," remember? And given 3Ds, the one can turn into the other. So yeah, it's very easy to read Thor's darkness and Loki as basically pulling a Terra--neat and orderly and controlled until the breakdown.